Songtrix

After more analysis, seems to me most of the issues are related to the drums track.
Looks like the patterns are reversed when switching to a VSTi instrument.

Coudl it be because of different drum maps?

best regards, Erix.

I continued my investigations. It is not only the drums, everything sounds weird, even if the drums is the strangest.
I used to export MIDI files from music tools like Guitar Pro, and in general it goes well when I import them into Cubase. First, they sound like the original and then when I assign Virtual Instruments to tracks the sound becomes much better.

Here it is the opposite. When I listen to the generated MIDI file, just plain MIDI rendering on Windows Media Player, it is already really different from the rendering within SongTrix. But then in Cubase it becomes a nightmare.

BTW: I'm using the style Swing 6.
Do you think the problem can be linked to that particular style?

There's nothing particularly different about that style.

It sounds like you are basically getting problems from within Cubase?

Try playing one of your exported MIDI files directly, using Windows Media Player or whatever comes up.

If it sounds correct, then you know Songtrix has done a good job of the export process.

Then it's probably best to pursue the problem at the Cubase end, not sure if we can help much there.

VST instruments take some manual setting up and do not necessarily map automatically to the voices that are assigned to the standard General Midi slots that your exported MIDI file will be using.

Thanks.

As I wrote, testing the generated MIDI file on Windows Media Player is usable but the sound is already quite different. Do you apply effects on sounds while rendering in Songtrix?

I understand the issue can be in Cubase or in the VSTi I use, but I have never experienced such a problem with MIDI files generated from Guitar Pro, or MIDI that we can find on the Internet.

What would be of great help would be a simple video or tutorial where you show us how to record an audio instrument on top of the SongTrix song.

best regards, Erix.

It's not really possible to cover the full process of export to a DAW because it will largely depend on the other software that people are exporting to.

But I feel sure that we should be able to make this work.

Are you saying that the exported MIDI file sounds wrong in WMP or just different?

Can you send a copy to network@chordwizard.com and I will see if there are any usual voice bank settings that might be responsible.

In WMP the sound is different (less reverb, for instance) but still usable.
I wil lsend you teh songtrix project file and the MIDI export.

The lack of reverb is expected.  The Windows standard MIDI synth is a cut-down version of the Roland VSC.

When accessed through the classic Windows MM interface, it is called

Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth

and has no reverb.  When accessed through DirectX, the same device is called

Microsoft Synthesizer

and offers Global Reverb (ie. For the whole song at once, but not for each track separately using the MIDI Reverb controller as you might expect).

A few years ago we extended our sound engine to access this device with DirectX mainly to get the reverb, but also for a couple of other benefits like lower latency.

But WMP doesn't, and is limited to the lower grade MM interface.

Cubase may be also, I'm not sure, but in any case this may be related to why you can play the MIDI files in Cubase but not capture their output in the final mixdown.

I'll examine your file and let you if I find anything that might be causing issues.

Thanks for the song and midi file.

It seems to be a faithful export of the song, apart from the loss of reverb, which I explained in the previous post.

All voice banks are set to the General Midi default of 0, so no problem there.

I think Songtrix is doing it's job OK, so tell exactly what is going wrong once the file is imported in Cubase?

Once in Cubase, the MIDI tracks sounds like in WMP, and I can record my audio bass guitar track on top of it. Cubase is able to play the MIDI tracks using Microsoft Synth (I don't know which one, I need to check) while I'm recording other tracks.

But, for some unknown reasons, Cubase does not want to include MIDI tracks in the final audio mix down.
Therefore, I need to generate audio tracks from the MIDI tracks.

My first idea was to use a VSTi instrument, like Halion one, available by default in Cubase, and assign MIDI tracks to Halion instruments.
This is what I usually do with other MIDI files exported from Guitar Pro or MIDI files I find on the Internet. In general it works very well, as the sounds from Halion are much better than the ones of the default Microsoft Synth.

But when I do that with the MIDI tracks coming from SongTrix, everything becomes weird, especially the drums. It's like if the drums was playing on the counter-beat.

The solution I found yesterday was to use the software mixer coming with my sound card (EMU PatchMix). I configure it to send System WAV output to ASIO 5/6.
Then I create an audio track in Cubase with its input assigned to ASIO 5/6.

Then I can mix the different MIDI tracks in this audio track.
I can do the same to record the output of Songtrix, in that case it will include the reverb you can use with DirectX.

So eventually I have a solution to mix audio and MIDI tracks from Songtrix, but it is not very convenient and requires a lot of manual operations. And I still can't understand what happens with the virtual instruments.

best regards, Erix.

Thank you for the explanation of Microsoft synths. It helps understanding a few things.

It's good to know you have a solution, but it does sound like it should easier.

Whereabouts is the Microsoft Synth selected for the midi tracks?  It's not a setting that is carried in the midi file itself, so it must be something you selected in Cubase?

Maybe Cubase has trouble capturing the audio via DirectX and this is why you are getting silence?

Are you saying the drum track is out of sync, or just using the wrong drum sounds for each event?

How about you use the (MME) Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth for the midi files instead and then add the reverb as a separate effect?

Also would it help if you export as multiple single-track midi files to give you more control over their assignments?

About the drum track, I tend to think it is just a bad sound map, but it does change everything...

I'll try the multiple file export.